02 - Clive Lumb's Internet Home and IEC

Feb 27, 2002 - Dong Wu. • Chris Englebrecht. ➢ No news from Allan Hurst. 4. Membership. CL had written to Prof. Zheng Jianchao asking if he wished to ...
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36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 Minutes of the seventh meeting of Working Group 11 of TC36 (Revision of IEC 60815) Held at CESI on 29th to 31st October 2001.

Present: Clive Lumb – Project Leader (arrived late) Rick Suzuki Franco Marinoni Wolfgang Petrusch Frank Schmuck Eric Spangenberg Don Swift Jacek Wankowicz Wallace Vosloo 1. Opening of the meeting Franco Marinoni welcomed the experts to Italy and to the CESI laboratories. Don Swift, standing in for the Project Leader, thanked him on behalf of the WG. 2. Approval of the agenda The agenda (36-WG11/Milan/88) was approved. 3. Apologies for absence, Apologies for absence were received from • • • •

Gustav Goedel Richard Martin Dong Wu Chris Englebrecht No news from Allan Hurst

4. Membership CL had written to Prof. Zheng Jianchao asking if he wished to continue as corresponding member. He replied that he had changed jobs and was now working for the Chinese Nuclear Power Company. He regretted that he could no longer participate in the Working Group. It was suggested that a member from Russia would be useful since they have been using a statistical approach to insulation design for many years. CL to contact Igor Gutman/Chris Engelbrecht for suggestions. 5. Approval of the minutes from Renardières 36-WG11/Renard/78 Some discussion was made on point 10 – discussion of §7 of the draft – concerning terms for pollution types. It was agreed that the best way to describe the pollution types was by the most appropriate means of measurement or testing. In other words, a Type A pollution site could be monitored/evaluated by ESDD/NSDD or dust gauge measurements and solid layer/clean fog tests would be most appropriate. Type B sites could be monitored/evaluated by surface conductivity measurements and salt-fog testing would be most appropriate. CL & DAS to prepare appropriate text.

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36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 For type B (salt fog style) sites CL to prepare text describing the principle of site severity measurements (Ih or conductivity) with values from document 94 and reference to CIGRE. Also mention that historical and continuing pollution measurements are useful for monitoring environmental changes. FS to add recommended method in column on table 3. RZ and WV agreed to produce a unified version of Annex B 6. Submitted document numbering The web site was updated with the documents submitted at the meeting as follows. 36-WG11/Milan/79

R. Martin

Revised table 2

36-WG11/Milan/80

K. Kondo

Drawings of cap & pin insulators

36-WG11/Milan/81

S. Nord

Porcelain shed profiles

36-WG11/Milan/82

D. Wu

Comments on the structure

36-WG11/Milan/83

D. Wu

Comments on the content

36-WG11/Milan/84

R. Suzuki

Comments on the third draft

36-WG11/Milan/85

R. Suzuki

Draft proposal of new Annex – Low solubility salts

36-WG11/Milan/86

S. Nord

Ideas for Chapter 9

36-WG11/Milan/87

C. Lumb

4th Draft of Part 1

36-WG11/Milan/88

C. Lumb

Agenda and timetable for the Milan meeting

36-WG11/Milan/89

C. Engelbrecht

Comments and contributions

36-WG11/Milan/90

W. Petrusch

Recommended minimum specific leakage for AC and DC

36-WG11/Milan/91

W. Petrusch

Influence of diameter

36-WG11/Milan/92

R. Suzuki

Comments on Pollution Performance and Insulator Diameter

36-WG11/Milan/93

R. Suzuki

Draft Proposal of New Annex: Pollution Deposit and Shed Profile of Insulators

36-WG11/Milan/94

W. Petrusch C. Engelbrecht

Evaluation of pollution severity for the case of "marine"-site contamination

36-WG11/Milan/95

F. Marinoni

Comments on the minutes of the 6th Meeting Special case for Marine site contamination

36-WG11/Milan/96

J. Wankovicz

Site severity for long rods

36-WG11/Doc/B9

C. Lumb

Updated list of members

36-WG11/Milan/97

CIGRE TF 33.13.01

CIGRE Flow chart

36-WG11/Milan/98

E. Spangenberg

Dimensioning rules at EdF in the 70’s

36-WG11/Milan/99

W. Vosloo

Summary of the various pollution classification levels

36-WG11/Milan/100

W. Vosloo

IPMR – Insulator pollution monitoring relay

36-WG11/Milan/101

W. Vosloo

Localised ESDD monitoring

36-WG11/Milan/102

R. Suzuki / W. Vosloo

Annex A : Measurement of ESDD and NSDD

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36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 7. Report on the activity of CIGRE TF 33.13.01 (DAS) DAS reported on the results of the meeting held in Padua and presented the latest version of the flowchart (document 79). At this point further discussion arose on the case of “marine pollution” and documents 94 and 95 were tabled. DAS agreed to write a summary document before the end of the year. JW agreed to send info on the Polish method, RZ on the “ESDD” method and FS on the STRI method The customary question on whether the WG should meet before or after the next TF33.13.01 meeting was tabled. It was suggested that again the WG meet after TF 33.13.01. (See point 12) 8. Discussion of tabled documents 8.1. Milan/79

R. Martin

Revised figure 2

It was noted that there was a risk of confusion between old and new 60815 pollution levels. The new levels would be A, B, C .. etc. CL to implement and add correspondence table. The graph was again corrected, notably to limit the max NSDD on a suggestion from JW. It has been published as Stafford/111. 8.2. Milan/80

K. Kondo

Drawings of cap & pin insulators

These were in bitmap format, RZ to re-send as vector drawings. 8.3. Milan/81

S. Nord

Porcelain shed profiles

The drawings were integrated into the draft 8.4. Milan/82 Milan/83

D. Wu D. Wu

Comments on the structure Comments on the content

In the absence of DW, DAS agreed to bring up the points from these two documents as and when necessary during the discussions. Most of the points were later taken on board. In document 83 it was decided that it was not necessary to define the types of insulators. The flashover mechanism to be moved to an Annex and to refer to the CIGRE review. Move §8 before §7. Change title of §11. Change order of Annexes A and B. 8.5. Milan/84

R. Suzuki Comments on the third draft

Discussed as the draft was studied 8.6. Milan/85

R. Suzuki Draft proposal of new Annex – Low solubility salts

It was decided that RS and CE should draft a “one-line” text indicating the trend/correction for solubility and pointing to the CIGRE guide for further information.

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36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 8.7. Milan/86

S. Nord

Ideas for Chapter 9

DAS asked if Form Factor was useful ? He thought not. WV said it had merit, but without values could not be used in a specification. JW said it was useful for design (for the manufacturer) but not for dimensioning. RZ said it was not used in Japan. WP said it did not really determine if the profile was adapted to the conditions. It was decided to remove Form Factor from the draft. It was decided that the materials part of the document would be reduced to glass/ceramic, polymers, hybrids, coatings and resins. 8.8. Milan/89

C. Engelbrecht

Comments and contributions

Agreed to add “or glass”. CL said normative references was OK. The definitions were also agreed – use “trunk” instead of “shank” for larger diameter insulators 8.9. Milan/90 DC

W. Petrusch

Recommended minimum specific leakage for AC and

Taken on board as support for the DC section 8.10. Milan/91 Milan/92

W. Petrusch Influence of diameter R. Suzuki Comments on Pollution Performance and Insulator Diameter

The WG opinion was that the influence is much less in natural pollution than in artificial. RS noted that the corrections given in his paper were for natural pollution. 8.11. Milan/93 R. Suzuki Draft Proposal of New Annex: Pollution Deposit and Shed Profile of Insulators DAS to combine this document and review data on the relative performance of profiles. Long rod data still required. 8.12. Milan/94 W. Petrusch/C. Engelbrecht Evaluation of pollution severity for the case of "marine"-site contamination Milan/95 F. Marinoni Comments on the minutes of the 6th Meeting - Special case for Marine site contamination Discussed under point 5. 8.13. Milan/96

J. Wankovicz

Site severity for long rods

It was decided to adopt a long-rod insulator with alternating sheds as the reference insulator. JW and RS to revise and complete. 8.14. Milan/97

CIGRE TF 33.13.01

CIGRE Flow chart

Presented and discussed under point 7. 8.15. Milan/98

E. Spangenberg

Dimensioning rules at EdF in the 70’s

This document was considered as being very important since it explains the source of the present IEC 815. ES agreed to rewrite and find more information and also to report on current practice in EDF. CL noted that the curves came together at 40 g/l. -4-

36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 8.16. Milan/99

W. Vosloo Summary of the various pollution classification levels

Taken on board for reference. 8.17. Milan/100 W. Vosloo IPMR – Insulator pollution monitoring relay Noted 8.18. Milan/101 W. Vosloo Localised ESDD monitoring Noted 8.19. Milan/102 R. Suzuki/W. Vosloo

Annex A : Measurement of ESDD and NSDD

It was noted that chemical analysis could be useful – add a short note. WV and RS to finalise Annex A and add long rod reference insulator. CL to write text telling how month/year measurements can be compared (retention factor) Also how to compare DDG and ESDD measurements/ratios. Add note that if deposit is highly localised use measurement only from that half of the insulator. CL 9. Discussion of the rest of document 87 – 4th draft Discussion of profiles JW agreed to look into the relative pickup of pollution between long rods and cap and pins. WV proposed to do an on-site study. JW to supply the long-rod insulators A discussion of profile parameters brought to light the following: JW estimated that: •

creepage factor should be ≤ 2.5 for levels ABC and ≤ 2 for DEF.



S/p ≅ 1 and 0.8 for plain and alternating sheds respectively.



Alternating shed overhang > 30-35 bad for long-rods.

The applicability and values of profile parameters were decided as follows Parameter

Cap and pin

Others

s/p

N/A

Yes

Ld/d

Yes

Yes

p1-p2

N/A

Yes

α

Yes

Yes

CF

Not needed ?

Not needed ?

PF

Not needed ?

Not needed ?

Annex B.

Dust deposit gauge

WV to “round off” and add dimensional drawings

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0.8 plain, 1 alternating 15 mm

36-WG11/Milan/103 27/02/02 10. Examination of other outstanding documents (time permitting) All the tabled documents had been reviewed and/or integrated into the draft. 11. Task list, timetables etc. The tasks are shown above LIKE THIS The projected meeting plan, along with prospective readiness dates for various drafts is reproduced hereafter. The main target dates being : Part 1 – CD April 2002, Part 2 – DC/CD April 2002 Part 3 – DC October 2002 (Next TC 36 meeting in Beijing)

Part I

Part II

Part III

Now

% Time of meeting spent on each Part

April 2001 EdF

60 %

30 %

10 %

Oct 2001 Milan

40 %

40 %

20 %

April 2002 Stafford

30 %

50 %

20 %

Study comments 30%

40 %

30 %

Nov/Dec 2002 Cape town ?

12. Date and place of the next meeting CL suggested that the group try to meet back-to-back with CIGRE TF 33.13.01 in Stafford in March 2002. CL to contact Jeremy Wheeler to find out if this would be possible. Since few of the members were planning to attend the IEC General Meeting in Beijing, it was decided not to plan a meeting in conjunction with TC 36. It was suggested that a later meeting could be held in Nov/Dec 2002 in Cape town. 13. Close of the meeting The project leader thanked the members for their hard work and Franco Marinoni and CESI for their hospitality. He then declared the meeting closed

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